David Blanch on Leadership, Resilience & Business Growth

00;00;21;10 – 00;00;28;04

Speaker 1

Welcome to REDD’s Business and Technology podcast. I’m your host, Nigel Heyn. And today, I’ve got a really special guest. David Blanch from BitPool. Welcome, Dave.

00;00;28;09 – 00;00;29;05

Speaker 2

Thanks, Nigel.

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Speaker 1

Dave, let’s begin by for the viewers and listeners, just a bit of background about, you know, where you came from and what you’re doing. So about BitPool. But yeah, the history of you know what brought Dave to be the CTO and everything you’ve done before. Yeah.

00;00;42;11 – 00;01;09;02

Speaker 2

Look, probably 20 years, mucking around in buildings, pulling data out of different systems. I come from a software development background and building automation background. Like I said, I’ve been in the industry for for 20 years now and seen many trends and different changes. Inevitably, what led me to to big pull and building a product like this, Paul was, watching customers constantly struggle to access their building data and gain value from that.

00;01;09;05 – 00;01;15;25

Speaker 2

So that’s what we looked at our people, which is literally connect our customers with their building data so they can change the way their properties are managed.

00;01;15;27 – 00;01;28;04

Speaker 1

And in terms of what brought you, hey, Dave, maybe can you share a bit of a backstory because I obviously know the Hvac industry and that people don’t really understand that, but can you just maybe simplify it a little bit? For those listeners who don’t understand the building industry.

00;01;28;08 – 00;01;52;10

Speaker 2

Predominant energy consumers within a building is the Hvac and mechanical system. They have a, building automation system which controls the function of everything mechanical within within the property. Sometimes they can do lighting and other things. So my background is in programming those systems. And in the very early days, a lot of those systems were but only responsible for the majority of the critical systems within the building.

00;01;52;12 – 00;02;22;27

Speaker 2

As the industries progressed, those systems have become separated and and siloed. So now the building automation system isn’t necessarily always the most predominant digital system within the building. But as I progressed through my career, there was obviously, a desire for customers to connect and converge these different systems together. And that’s where we moved into the, integrated building space as a master system integrator, which just clearly focuses on, connecting building services together and extracting data for analytics and visualisation and reporting and things like that.

00;02;23;00 – 00;02;23;26

Speaker 2

Fantastic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1

What is the value pitch for Bitpool, if you were to summarise that for people that don’t know much about the Proptech.

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Speaker 2

Yeah, interesting. That’s a good tough question. Essentially the core value is connecting our customers with with the building data that they already have vast amounts of, and making that simple to create value from. 90% of customers will have this wealth of data already in their custody, in their buildings or in file systems within, you know, SharePoint and things like that.

00;02;51;28 – 00;03;14;26

Speaker 2

People make so simple to access and converge that data and, give them operational insights to their facility. So literally tell them how things are working within that facility. And if you scale that to a portfolio, we, we give them the ability to benchmark individual properties against each other. For those operational insights, the predominant issue for property owners is actually just visibility.

00;03;14;26 – 00;03;34;00

Speaker 2

If you think of a 30 storey commercial office tower and then you times up by 150 of them, you know, it’s very hard to get visibility into how that property’s operating. How service providers, maintaining equipment. So that’s what people does a trawl through all of that data and provides those operational insights very simply for the customer.

00;03;34;02 – 00;03;55;15

Speaker 1

And I can imagine, Dave, you know, people don’t appreciate how important this is, right? So, you know, as a tenant, right? You want to give your staff and your employees and your team, you know, such a wonderful experience. But at the same time, people don’t appreciate that, you know, buildings consume so much power. You know, like, yeah, you can easily disrupt someone by having, you know, the elevators not work, the the Hvac not working, you know, the power going on and off.

00;03;55;15 – 00;04;09;02

Speaker 1

You know, no business building will operate. So I think, correct me if I’m wrong, people is really that that secret sauce that every asset owner needs to leverage that helps digitise a legacy building into, you know, a modern building that is meaningful for a tenant. Is that a physical?

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Speaker 2

Yeah, that’s that’s fair. I mean, what people actually does is, enhances what they already have. So if you’ve got an existing building with these digital systems, installed, we can breathe new life into even a 15 and 20 year old system as well. You know, once again, going back to the fundamentals, it’s firstly you have to have visibility.

00;04;27;12 – 00;04;53;06

Speaker 2

You spoke about the tenant experience and that’s really key. Buildings are extremely complex. You know, they’re an engineering marvel in their own own right. And if you look at, when a building is constructed, you have vast amounts of highly technical expertise building those buildings that then leave once the building’s built and handed over to the customer, they leave, and then the customer is left to operate, to manage that property.

00;04;53;06 – 00;05;13;02

Speaker 2

Moving forward with all of those technical engineering systems that are in there. So not having a platform that can give you some form of visibility into what’s happening. And, and the really key part is to make it simple for people, because we also have, a lot of challenges with diminishing skill sets within our industry. It’s actually making that as simple for people to use and get value from.

00;05;13;04 – 00;05;26;03

Speaker 1

Just on that legacy buildings, legacy systems. You know, I remember back in my day, you know, hidden in cabinets and closets, trying to set up, you know, data centres and all of that. How do you handle those disparate legacy systems in your industry?

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Speaker 2

Interestingly, as an industry, I think we don’t handle them overly well. I mean, think about, within a building, you might have 20 different digital services. So between lifts and fire and, the building automation system, lighting control systems, they’re often on siloed network. So a lot of customers will look to modernise their buildings and converge them onto a single network.

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Speaker 2

When you’re converging those systems, you have a lot of challenges with bringing everything into the one network layer, and then you have challenges around data extraction from proprietary systems, which is something that we’ve built a lot of IP around in getting data out of proprietary systems, but also open systems.

00;06;02;17 – 00;06;16;01

Speaker 1

So you big pull effectively. I just like that agnostic, interconnect to all of the disparate systems. And then I guess I’d also, you know, opens a bit of a can of worms when it comes to security and, you know, hackers into buildings. Can you talk a bit about that, Dave?

00;06;16;04 – 00;06;37;08

Speaker 2

Yeah, sure. I mean, I think what you find with buildings is, our our industry struggled to evolve to an extent at the scale and speed that other industries work. So cyber security is actually still quite new to the industry. When we talk about our edge device that goes into a property and extracts data, that’s all open source technology.

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Speaker 2

So we built the edge device specifically on, on open source technology, where we use modern security technology to secure the devices for remote access and just literally how they operate. I mean, our system runs on a technology called Docker. So we run Docker containers across all of our edge devices, things like CrowdStrike and other technologies, from a protection standpoint.

00;06;57;14 – 00;07;17;28

Speaker 2

But it’s extremely challenging. If you if you look at most SaaS companies in the built environment, the biggest problem they have is actually getting access to clean and structured data. From a product development perspective, probably 50% of our time is spent on building out the edge layer to get streamlined access to data. We spoke about the speed of that as well.

00;07;17;28 – 00;07;35;05

Speaker 2

I mean, inherently it’s it’s very costly. So, you know, if you’ve got a property or a group of properties and it’s going to take me three months to mobilise them and, you know, $40,000 a building, you know, there’s a huge barrier to entry there for a SaaS product. So that’s the core of what we focus on in building.

00;07;35;11 – 00;07;45;08

Speaker 1

You know, fantastic. Now, I’m sure everyone ask you these questions, but, you know, I you know, how is Aria revolutionising what you do and specifically how are you guys embracing that in between.

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Speaker 2

So we use AI to, literally remove all of the human technical expertise required to understand insights. So what do I mean by that? I mean, we I spoke before about some of the challenges that we have in the industry around skill sets. So we use artificial intelligence to take extremely complex insights and humanise them to give to a facility manager, a building on or a portfolio manager so everyone can actually participate in optimising the building.

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Speaker 2

We also use it to streamline workflows. So one of the things that’s very complex with a building is just the workflow of having an issue and then getting that issue resolved. There’s probably 5 or 10 different parties in that chain. So we use artificial intelligence to generate these insights, these detailed reports that clearly articulate why something’s happening and how to fix it.

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Speaker 2

To, to streamline that workflow.

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Speaker 1

Can you give an example, Dave, of what you said earlier and like, you know, the analytics insights, you know, how does that translate to an actual tangible outcome for an asset owner? Yeah.

00;08;46;06 – 00;09;09;03

Speaker 2

So if I talk end to end, from a building, we may collect 50,000 data points from the large commercial office buildings. We run that data through a lot of machine learning processing to cleanse and structure the data. So we semantically model that, we cleanse it. And then we use artificial intelligence to literally draw insights out of that data to pinpoint exactly what’s happening within a, in a facility.

00;09;09;09 – 00;09;33;13

Speaker 2

So an example could be one of your, some of the central plant equipment running in outside of ours when it shouldn’t be lighting is another example, lighting operating when it shouldn’t be and correlating that to the energy demand of the property compared to outside ambient. We’re able to push a lot of data through our platform to generate what we’d call a real insight, not just an insight about specific data points.

00;09;33;16 – 00;09;39;28

Speaker 1

And is there any building you can’t you know, retrofit is a is there anything you say no to, anything that your system can’t.

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Speaker 2

There’s nothing we say no to. There’s probably some we should say no to. But no, we do have, what we call a digital canopy. So we do a lot of industrial and logistics facilities that aren’t digitised at all. We use LoRaWAN technology for that, which is a long range IoT wireless technology. So we can actually digitise a property as well.

00;09;58;24 – 00;10;04;08

Speaker 2

But no, we haven’t touched on anything that we couldn’t deal with today. It’s just the, the scale of the challenge that changes.

00;10;04;13 – 00;10;23;20

Speaker 1

Yeah, well, exciting to answer you guys. So, proptech itself, you know, tends to be, I guess I slow from my experience, a slow evolution. Talk us through how you’re seeing the adaptation of what you’re trying to drive versus, you know, I guess the asset owners transitional. Probably because I think all of them want to embrace proptech.

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Speaker 1

But I see and I’m probably going to get in trouble for saying this. You know, they’re not moving as fast as we would like.

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Speaker 2

I think as an industry, we’ve got to take some stock too, of are we enabling them to to move fastly? I really like to, reflect in the mirror and ask, like, are we doing everything we can? For them to move quickly? I think that the, the challenges that, especially when you look at artificial intelligence as an example, a lot of buildings aren’t ready for that technology because they haven’t been digitised correctly.

00;10;54;04 – 00;11;11;15

Speaker 2

They don’t have the right infrastructure in there. So then for a customer, they might have to go back and remediate a number of systems before they can be ready to, to utilise that technology. And then we sort of get into the, the commercial aspect of procurement. And, you know, we even have a lot of things with safety around AI, safety, cyber security.

00;11;11;15 – 00;11;32;01

Speaker 2

So things are classically slow, you know, compared to the more modern tech space. But the problem but the reason that is slow is because these buildings are more complex than you could possibly imagine. So we’re dealing with a lot of things in properties, but I think over the next 2 to 3 years you’ll see a rapid disruption or change within our industry.

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Speaker 2

And that’s what I always talk about. Out in the industry is just we are ripe for disruption.

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Speaker 1

Can I ask what specifically is driving that disruption? Is there anything you can pinpoint?

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Speaker 2

If you look at the latest jobs report, the skills report that the government releases in 2024, I mean, technical trade skills is the highest in demand or the highest shortage of skill in any occupation. We have a dwindling skill problem within our industry. And, you know, these buildings are complex and take that technical skill to maintain and operate.

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Speaker 2

If you take that in conjunction with a lot of the compliance and decarbonisation, that’s happening, you know, you’ve really got the perfect storm for disruption. And then you bring artificial intelligence into that. And I think a lot of people, you know, will take the the softer route, which is it’s not going to replace people, but inevitably it has to replace people because we don’t have those people.

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Speaker 2

We get into circumstances at the moment in the industry where we don’t have people who can maintain certain systems within buildings and things of that effect. So, that’s where the disruption will happen. Only when companies can access building data in a rapid way will that will that really take off, in my view.

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Speaker 1

And then to that point, the skill shortage, you know, with your experience building effectively a Start-Up, you know, you’ve been involved from day one. And, you know, I’ve, you know, so sort of moving towards a scale up right now. Yeah. Share some of the challenges. And I guess lessons learnt that you had over that journey.

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Speaker 2

Oh look I think.

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Speaker 1

Oh what would you not do differently.

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Speaker 2

Interestingly I wouldn’t change anything we’ve, we’ve done probably with the expectation on the business to, to start with like when, when we did it, I thought we would just go in and start a business and get going and everything would be smooth sailing. I’ve learnt that you pretty much need to, get used to getting knocked down and getting dusted off and getting back up again.

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Speaker 2

That’s, that’s a pretty classic thing for me to do now. And also, really anchor yourself in the purpose. When we started working with, I, you know, there was a lot of scepticism. I think that journey to work with that technology is long. It’s not, you know, you don’t wake up tomorrow and say, in six months time, we’re going to embed AI into our product.

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Speaker 2

You know, even just as recent, we’ve got a new development coming out with how we how we appropriate agents to the system and real time AI. But yeah, I wouldn’t change anything I’ve done is probably temper my expectations and prepare myself for the journey ahead. You know, it’s a tough road and it’s, you got to have good friends around you, I think in, in business.

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Speaker 2

And, it can be a lonely place from time to time.

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Speaker 1

Yeah. And it’s definitely great advice and, you know, being patient. And if you believe in it, I know. Look, you know, we’ve been talking for many, many years and I’ll give you credit that you you know, I think you guys were very early adopters of AI and, you know, the machine learning trend and things like that. Where do you see, you know, not not just Paul, but just the industry.

00;14;21;25 – 00;14;37;26

Speaker 1

If you had a crystal ball dive, you know, you’ve been in the the space and looking at it from a tech lens. Apart from what you said, is there anything you see, you know, material we’ve got obviously the Olympics happening here. So there’ll be a bit of a boom, but is there a drive in particular that people are wanting more and more?

00;14;37;29 – 00;14;43;00

Speaker 1

Digitisation in buildings, where is Proptech going like share to the listeners, you know, where you say, look.

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Speaker 2

I definitely see wireless technologies playing a bigger role. In the past, you know, wireless technologies have been more unreliable than reliable. So there’s been challenges with it, with with technologies like LoRaWAN and the vast array of IoT sensors, you can now, augment a building with. It’s amazing. So I definitely see, things moving out into the, into the wireless space with, with that.

00;15;08;10 – 00;15;36;13

Speaker 2

And then how do we leverage building data or property data? I mean, the, the core focus has always been on, you know, more the machine and operational data. I say the more artificial becomes consumer friendly, artificial intelligence becomes consumer friendly. I think you’re going to start to see things like digital assistants, digital concierge, and that whole the whole way a property is operated will will get disrupted at some, some point in time only because it’s so inefficient.

00;15;36;16 – 00;15;56;15

Speaker 2

You know, there’ll be probably a lot of listeners out there who might agree or disagree with me, but for for the hard code facility managers out there, they would know that most times they’re stretched. They they can’t process information quickly. They don’t have that visibility. And having things like artificial intelligence that can just reduce your overall workload in a day, even just typing emails.

00;15;56;15 – 00;16;14;15

Speaker 2

I mean, you know, it’s it’s phenomenal technology. So I’d definitely say, I’d put a timeframe on it of probably about over the next two years, you’ll see that, and then we’ll laid out to more, you know, full control of a property. So the complete automation using artificial intelligence, I think that’s probably five years away. If I was, if I was betting on us.

00;16;14;15 – 00;16;25;28

Speaker 2

But inevitably, the property can have its own intelligence built within the building that it knows the best way to control itself, and maximise tenant experience and comfort and things like that.

00;16;26;03 – 00;16;42;11

Speaker 1

Yeah. Fantastic. Couple more questions to drill down a little bit more. If I’m a tenant and I’m wanting this greater experience is greater technology. Like how do I, you know, convey to my, my landlord or the building owner that I need something quite a bit more like, what’s the advice you should give one of them?

00;16;42;14 – 00;17;04;09

Speaker 2

Look, you know, I think you’ve got to be asking, you know, is my property sustainable? Is a functioning the way it should? This is where I see those last two technologies of disruption. You know, for tenants, it’s actually very hard to get access to granular information from a building owner. I mean, they don’t particularly want to be sharing too much information, especially around lease conditions and things like that.

00;17;04;11 – 00;17;29;21

Speaker 2

So if you think if you if you’re a tenant and you can deploy wireless technology at a very low cost, I mean, we’re talking about $200 temperature sensors, these, these smaller digital canopies, you can fit out your office quite simply for probably under 2 to $3000 and then connect to a platform for people that, can generate insights and information out of that data for you to, you know, potentially challenge the building owner on, the space that you’re occupying.

00;17;29;24 – 00;17;47;11

Speaker 2

I really do see that wireless technology playing a part in the tenant tenant space. Because very hard. It’s not their infrastructure, it’s not their building. They’re just leasing the space. You know, even for you at this office, there’s only so much you can have access to. So. So digitising that yourself at a very low cost. Will, I think, change the landscape for tenants.

00;17;47;11 – 00;17;58;16

Speaker 1

And you see it being driven by the tenant wanting more or the landlord trying to optimise a commercial or the asset and in turn optimise the commercial rather. And then it’s a top down approach, like where do you see that it’s actually equal.

00;17;58;16 – 00;18;15;25

Speaker 2

Like if you get really good landlords like our landlords, very good. Where we lease from they providing is constant reporting and updates about the property. It’s actually really good. I think it’s equal because if you think if you’re a large organisation, you know, the, the thing you want to be able to tell your staff is that the place is safe to work in.

00;18;15;25 – 00;18;42;23

Speaker 2

It is comfortable. The indoor air quality is appropriate for productivity. I mean, even just things like, CO2 levels within the space can change the way you make decisions. You know, if you’ve got high CO2 levels that inhibits your cognitive functionality. There’s a whole heap of things that come from just poor indoor air quality. So, you know, as a business owner, you want to be able to say to your staff that know this, this space is good and productive, and if it’s not, you want to be able to go back to the building on and say, hey, it’s not.

00;18;42;23 – 00;18;53;24

Speaker 2

And here’s and and here’s the data. It’s not just an opinion. Right. You know, a lot of people will lead with opinion, which then can’t be validated. If you have data, you know, it’s real.

00;18;53;27 – 00;19;00;10

Speaker 1

That’s really interesting that like in terms of oxygen sensors, can you for those that don’t know what sort of things can you guys monitor?

00;19;00;12 – 00;19;22;05

Speaker 2

So, you know, classically it is CO2 levels because, you know, obviously changes, you know, your, your ability to make clear and, and, sensible decisions. There’s things like, PM 2.5 and ten, which is particulate matter in the air. So that’s sort of the particulate matter, which can cause, you know, sore throat, dry lung, things that affect dry eyes as well, or irritation.

00;19;22;08 – 00;19;44;23

Speaker 2

Then you’ve got temperature and humidity that can impact that as well. So the IQ sensors that we put into buildings have, about 14 different things that they, they sense. And then we’re able to compare that to the ambient. So we actually, I use open weather for that, where we get all the pollutant information from open weather and compare inside to outside and say, okay, you know, if there’s bushfires or something in the area, we could see those pollutants coming in.

00;19;44;25 – 00;20;08;04

Speaker 2

But when you use artificial intelligence, you could actually do a World Health Organisation baseline against your indoor air quality. So you could say, okay, is this play safe to ban? Or when is the most productive time to be in the office? This is another, key metric if you think of indoor air quality plus people counting, I can start to sort of draw some correlations and say, well, when is the most productive time based on the indoor air quality?

00;20;08;04 – 00;20;19;06

Speaker 2

It could we could think it might be like eight until ten, but that might be a high occupancy time period. It might be like 11 till two. So it’s being able to optimise that as well and understand what’s happening in the space. Yeah.

00;20;19;11 – 00;20;31;26

Speaker 1

This is amazing that just listening to you is it’s made me appreciate that. You know, a lot of the things we don’t know. And how do you get the best out of a team. Right. You know, your, your most expensive, thing in a business is your talent, right. And you got to protect them. You got to harness them.

00;20;31;28 – 00;20;48;21

Speaker 1

But if you don’t have the data, like what you just said, like I didn’t have no idea. I don’t have any oxygen sensors. Look, I need to be a customer yesterday, but at this event, anything else you want to share? Like for the listeners out there about, you know, real world case studies or examples? Because I think this is the new concept and I think we’ll have to probably get you back for another, you know.

00;20;48;22 – 00;20;49;19

Speaker 1

Yeah. Series two.

00;20;49;19 – 00;21;03;29

Speaker 2

But look, the thing I’d leave people with, I think when when people walk into a building and go to work, they want to leave feeling better than when they arrived. If you look at the world today and something that COVID’s taught us is people actually deal with a lot of problems at home and out in the real world.

00;21;03;29 – 00;21;27;00

Speaker 2

So when they come into a building, they want to know, well, they want to be happier when they leave than they arrived. And I think there’s an obligation for everyone. I hate to make buildings accountable and sustainable and be, be a good, productive place to work. And to do that, you need data to make clear decisions. If you’re using opinions to make your decisions, often they’ll be wrong or incorrect.

00;21;27;03 – 00;21;45;00

Speaker 2

So that’s what I’d leave everyone with. Probably less technical, but I think, you know, if you have a look at the the Brisbane CBD at night, if you go up to Kangaroo Point on the Saturday night and have a look at, all the lights on that are in these commercial offices, you’d sort of ask yourself the question, are we holding these buildings to account or not?

00;21;45;02 – 00;21;49;21

Speaker 2

And I think in a lot of instances, we probably don’t hold them to account the way they should be.

00;21;49;23 – 00;21;54;04

Speaker 1

Fantastic. A lot of homework for those out there. You know, watching those buildings at night time.

00;21;54;07 – 00;21;56;29

Speaker 2

We might see a crowd up on Kangaroo Point that Saturday.

00;21;57;02 – 00;22;08;25

Speaker 1

Shows your influence. So, you know, final question. Where do you see yourself go in the next few years? You know, you’ve obviously got a big ride ahead with the whole journey. But, you know, beyond people.

00;22;08;28 – 00;22;25;07

Speaker 2

Look, for us is big pool. I think, you know, we’ve gone through the Start-Up phase and we’re in scale up with, signed two partners in in the UK. We’re we’re looking at partners in North America. So just as much as I’ve been on a wild ride to start with, I think I’m about to go on on a second, second wild ride.

00;22;25;07 – 00;22;47;20

Speaker 2

So I think in, you know, we’ll definitely be operating in in the EU and North America over the next two years. And the scale up journey is going to be amazing. From a technology standpoint, we will get to a completely automated experience on, on platform. And, we will get to a point where it’s just a complete digital assistant, where there’s no requirement for the user to interact with the platform.

00;22;47;22 – 00;22;53;16

Speaker 2

So I’m pretty excited from a, from a technology standpoint to, and excited to see some more buildings be held account.

00;22;53;18 – 00;23;17;04

Speaker 1

Fantastic. Dave, look, thank you so much for coming in and sharing the story about, you know, big pool and yourself. I think, you know, with what you guys are doing, you know, like as a business owner, it’s essential. I think every asset, needs to have a big pool in there. And just being able to know that, you know, your team are coming in and they’re not feeling great like your or, you know, to your point, someone should walk in, and then leave feeling much better because the building has been optimised to, to make them achieve their best.

00;23;17;04 – 00;23;18;11

Speaker 1

Right. That’s utopia.

00;23;18;13 – 00;23;35;12

Speaker 2

Correct? Yeah. I mean, and if you think of the, the way buildings are valued is based on long term leasing. So if you talk about tenant experience, the ultimate tenant experience is that you’ve got a productive and happy space to work in that, you know, it’s like happy customers are returning customers. So yeah.

00;23;35;15 – 00;23;45;20

Speaker 1

Fantastic. I look forward to seeing the rise of people over the months and years ahead. And, you know, I’d love to get you back for probably a bit more of a specific deep dive in, you know, when the time is right. So happy to thank you.

00;23;45;26 – 00;23;57;19

Speaker 2

Thanks for the.