Raising the Bar: How to Navigate working in a Big 4 Accounting Firm as a Mother – Insights from Angela Holz

The sister that Emma never had, the pillar of strength the Herbert family cherish and in a worlds collide moment, Angela Holz started her commendable career with our CEO Brad Ferris at EY.

Angela has always strived for the best things possible, has an enviable work ethic and the fruits of her labour is now showing with her role and experience. While climbing that elusive corporate ladder, Angela also juggled motherhood and has absolutely blossomed to be a powerhouse weapon in her game.

If you are looking for a glimmer of hope to shine out the back of the long climb and hiccups along the way in a Big 4 world, then this poddie is for you!

It was an absolute honour to have such an incredible person in the studio and the joy and appreciation can be felt and heard throughout! No doubt you will enjoy this poddie!

Stay tuned for the series of Empowered there are amazing guests on their way!

If you would like to discuss any of the topics discussed in this episode or if you would like to be a guest on the show, please get in touch either via our website, [email protected] or through any of the links below.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmaherbie/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-holz-49a89051/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/redd-digital/

Thanks for watching!

You are amazing and you are loved!

You can find the full transcript below!

00:00:21:18 – 00:00:53:00
Speaker 1
3 to 1. Hi. Welcome to Empowered. I’m Emma Herbert, the chief of happiness here at Red. Before we kick off, I’d like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the past, present and future. Traditional custodians and elders of this nation, and the continuation of cultural, spiritual and educational practices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. I further acknowledge the land on which we are recording today and the work of the terrible and Ugarit peoples.

00:00:54:01 – 00:01:18:15
Speaker 1
We all have a story to tell and we all have a story that we need to hear. Your story will save another soul and it will make another soul shine. And for this reason, Empowered was born, be it your career, success, fitness, achievement, finding your that elusive personal work life balance. Selling a business. He started from scratch and explaining the struggles that you had throughout.

00:01:19:04 – 00:01:41:02
Speaker 1
There is a queen right now who is struggling to stay above water and they need to hear your story. If you had the cure to cancer, you’d tell everybody about it. So your cure is the story you hold, and that’s the story that you need to share. Welcome to Empowered. So today I have a very, very, very special friend.

00:01:41:07 – 00:02:02:11
Speaker 1
Well, she’s more than our friend. She’s like my surrogate’s wife and my children’s second mother and her queen. In their presence today is Angela Holt’s the one and only. Hello, everybody. Hi. Thank you for joining me here today. I know that you probably were maybe a little nervous being here, but thank you for being courageous enough to just say, yes, I’ll be there.

00:02:02:13 – 00:02:03:19
Speaker 2
This will be my first podcast.

00:02:03:19 – 00:02:06:20
Speaker 1
Oh, so exciting to be listening to many part two.

00:02:07:14 – 00:02:09:00
Speaker 2
So it’s different being on the other side.

00:02:09:00 – 00:02:27:00
Speaker 1
It’s good. You can see like there’s some people who almost have imposter syndrome and I don’t know if that came into play, but it’s a real thing where people go, Why are you asking me to be on a podcast? But I just explained the intention of why everyone who sits in this chair is here is because we all have a story.

00:02:27:12 – 00:02:45:17
Speaker 1
And you and I have always well, probably me more so I’ve been more vocal. We you always offer me a safe space to share my ups, downs and in-betweens. And I thank you for that and I love you for that. I really sometimes feel shitty about myself that I quite often call on you the times that I like.

00:02:45:17 – 00:03:15:16
Speaker 1
I call on you more than I do in the bad times, than I do the good times. But that’s like it’s everything you do. Exactly. It’s a testament to friendship. Yeah. So on that note, Angela, you’re not here because. Well, you are here because you’re my friend. And thank you for saying sorry, but the reason that I really wanted you to be here and I want the people watching and listening to see and hear what you have to say is it’s probably something that I don’t recognize or be vocal enough about, but how fucking proud I am of you and your accomplishments.

00:03:15:22 – 00:03:36:18
Speaker 1
Thank you. You’re a pillar of strength for me and your constant motivation and inspiration in many, many avenues. You’re way better Mom than I am. Oh, my God. And way that I’m a commodity or godmother. For those of you who aren’t Italian, I pretend to be Italian, but anything. You’re one of the best things that’s come out of my marriage.

00:03:38:11 – 00:03:56:07
Speaker 1
You are the sister that I never has. And I know I can’t steal you from your genuine sister, Amanda, because that’s not fair. You know, we can share you. But so for those of you who don’t know, I married into the Herbert family. The Herbert family of best friends with the wife’s family. And then obviously you’re a man, Amanda.

00:03:56:08 – 00:04:04:09
Speaker 1
I do that all the time. Amanda and Angela. Angela married into the Hots family, smoking hot husband. I’m sorry.

00:04:04:09 – 00:04:05:04
Speaker 2
I’m not sharing.

00:04:05:08 – 00:04:24:03
Speaker 1
No, no, not sharing him bit. But we get to love on human regardless. Yeah, but you married into. I’m sorry. Oh, I married into a family that has got some beautiful friendships there. And your mum and Chris mum met when you were first baby’s mother’s club, which is just that’s an insane, insane story.

00:04:24:08 – 00:04:25:14
Speaker 2
We were babies and grew up.

00:04:25:14 – 00:04:29:06
Speaker 1
Together and you had no choice in the friendship. It was like battle happened.

00:04:29:06 – 00:04:35:05
Speaker 2
Both of our siblings loved each other, so we were always going to be around. And you live around the corner and one straight back and.

00:04:35:08 – 00:04:36:03
Speaker 1
It’s like that every.

00:04:36:04 – 00:04:39:07
Speaker 2
Time. But it was awesome. So good to have a normal family like that.

00:04:39:09 – 00:04:58:17
Speaker 1
Country, you know, mentality. Like you guys were walking distance. Unfortunately, that one family has sold and that’s not same, but we still will keep that friendship forever in a day. And then getting to see our kids be really good friends to so-called. Yes, but yeah, you have adopted me as your own and I love that about our friendship.

00:04:59:15 – 00:05:16:15
Speaker 1
And that’s part of why you’re here today. But the other side of it is you’ve been an absolute weapon in your career, and I don’t know that you’ve often taken the time, the place and the space to recognize and reward yourself and that self reflection. Very true. Do you do self reflection in that.

00:05:16:17 – 00:05:31:10
Speaker 2
Like I do, but I don’t get too hung up on it. I think I’m so focused on the go forward and where to from here and sometimes I look back and that gives me courage to keep going. And I was really hard times, but I probably yeah, I don’t really sit there and kind of go look at all this stuff.

00:05:31:10 – 00:05:31:19
Speaker 2
I’ve done.

00:05:33:00 – 00:05:52:11
Speaker 1
Do you think? I think especially as females, we don’t probably do it enough because we seem like to kids, like we don’t want to seem cocky, but we should be like the my previous guests on your been hard who hasn’t. Oh I am she was nominated three times for that three times three separate people wanted her to win and she did.

00:05:52:17 – 00:06:17:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And she was kind of in this like, really? You’re I’m just I’m nobody. You’re not nobody. We’re all not nobody. We’re all doing phenomenal things and coming into this podcast like it’s about your story and it’s going to resonate with someone. Yeah. Just for the viewer and the listeners, we are going to keep to around a 30 minute time because the intention also too is I want it to be some sound bites that you can do in the car on the way home or on the way to work.

00:06:17:09 – 00:06:39:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that’s about the time people are in the car. I can babble forever. So I had to sort of also have to put that construct down for myself. But what I wanted to really unpack is your career like I obviously was there for the majority of your journey, but the ins and outs and the nitty gritty of what you’ve done in the time you’ve done and also managing your husband, being self-employed.

00:06:39:06 – 00:07:08:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, and let’s be honest, you’re the Barnes, that business man. He just does the physical job, but also to juggling motherhood. So there’s a lot to unpack that. Selfishly, I’d really like. Exactly. So can you sort of take us through and I think the motherhood juggle will blend naturally or come out organically off the back of it. But stop me from obviously graduating and then yeah and then also to in worlds collide I Angela was actually in the grad program with Brad Ferris.

00:07:08:20 – 00:07:13:21
Speaker 1
I see I hear it read. Yeah. And that’s pretty cool. He tells me some hilarious stories that I didn’t know about.

00:07:13:21 – 00:07:14:18
Speaker 2
Which are not going to make it.

00:07:14:18 – 00:07:30:03
Speaker 1
I’m sure that you can tell me something that I don’t know about him too, and give some dirt on him. But looking back, you know, he was a grad that went into a UI program. I mean, their internship or cadetship program with dreadlocks. Yep. What the. Yeah. And then obviously.

00:07:30:11 – 00:07:31:02
Speaker 2
He’s a deejay.

00:07:31:03 – 00:07:44:14
Speaker 1
He was cool wasn’t. Yeah I writing not cool anyone now he is still very cool cool to see. I know most of the time but yeah let’s go from the very beginning and let’s just yeah. Shop at the AMA show and let’s go over to Angela.

00:07:45:01 – 00:08:02:21
Speaker 2
So really my career kind of sort of like kind of skipped the best and lesson of the worlds that you do while you’re in union running restaurants. And but even I guess even just in my uni job, I had this passion for being able to organize and run things useful in front of house at a restaurant. And I’m kind of just kick that out and stuff like this.

00:08:02:21 – 00:08:23:05
Speaker 2
So it kind of just all started. I guess it was something that was already inherent in me and I found I enjoyed it and that was an area that I just continued to grow. But then, yeah, I was studying a bachelor business, majoring in accounting numbers made me excited. Things balancing and yet like don’t charge.

00:08:23:05 – 00:08:25:19
Speaker 1
Me for no I don’t I need we need people like you.

00:08:26:11 – 00:08:38:01
Speaker 2
But yes, I study through uni and then it was kind of at the end I’m like, what the hell am I going to do with this? And all these offers and things came out and I went for the big fall because I’m kind of on the basis of, you know, my grandma.

00:08:38:06 – 00:08:39:03
Speaker 1
I was like, Oh.

00:08:39:10 – 00:08:53:23
Speaker 2
They probably going to have the most amount of positions. So that’s going to increase my chances. Again, talking numbers of getting a job and then they ask you to pick a division. I’m like taxed now, can’t really see myself doing that, but it has the most amount of positions available. That’s.

00:08:53:23 – 00:08:55:02
Speaker 1
So you were strategic.

00:08:55:02 – 00:09:00:14
Speaker 2
With your approach like, okay, maybe I just get in the door, see if I like it. I don’t. I mean, I did a subjective audit, but who knows what that.

00:09:00:14 – 00:09:01:11
Speaker 1
One one subject.

00:09:01:11 – 00:09:17:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then you kind of go from there and and really when I started at E y, it was like, I guess I got a hierarchy of structure. So it was kind of you come in as a grad, you do these kind of jobs. You know, I was photocopying, carrying bags around, carrying printers, like getting the stationery for the rest of the team.

00:09:17:22 – 00:09:21:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, you do coffee runs, follow the grads these days weren’t doing that.

00:09:21:13 – 00:09:23:03
Speaker 1
Oh, don’t even start. Yeah.

00:09:23:16 – 00:09:39:21
Speaker 2
But. But I guess I was in a structure or an organization that had a structure and they kind of were very clear on what you needed to do, what they expected of you. They gave you all the training and the support. But then I was always just, I guess, out of habit looking at that next step. Okay, well, what’s the next step after grad?

00:09:39:21 – 00:10:04:12
Speaker 2
What’s after that? And then start to learn and do those things. And so a really strong motto that I had worked towards from the beginning was try and make the person above me redundant. And I guess that was kind of, you know, giving me something to aspire to but not putting too much pressure on myself. But I’d kind of look at the people who are above me, the seniors, the managers, even up to the partners to some point.

00:10:04:12 – 00:10:25:01
Speaker 2
And you kind of guy. Well, I don’t like how they do things. I like to manage teams and I like how this person doesn’t maybe not how they do that thing. So it was almost like picking the best bit like a bland body that I was working with and kind of instilling those values in me and kind of putting in the back of my mind of when I’m a manager one day I’m not going to treat my staff like this.

00:10:25:01 – 00:10:46:09
Speaker 1
I think that’s probably that. Then I’m sorry to interrupt, but that’s so vital to climbing the ladder. Is that for sort of when I am not if when I am, yeah. Because you’ve got to back yourself. Like climbing the corporate ladder is not for everyone climbing any ladders. Not for everybody. Yeah, that’s tricky. That’s really, really. That’s a really cool point.

00:10:46:09 – 00:10:58:12
Speaker 1
I try and grab some sound bites that others can take away, I imagine, like ticking a box of. Yeah, that’s a hot tip that there is a hot tip like have the courage and have the foresight to go. I will be. But what will I look like?

00:10:58:13 – 00:11:04:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. And so that just continued on through my career. I stayed there for 16 years. So that.

00:11:04:02 – 00:11:04:14
Speaker 1
Long.

00:11:04:14 – 00:11:12:12
Speaker 2
That long and yeah, in a job that was very demanding, high pace was client servicing. So you had to be on one.

00:11:12:12 – 00:11:16:18
Speaker 1
Of we wouldn’t see you for months on end. We had to plan family holidays around you being busy.

00:11:17:00 – 00:11:19:07
Speaker 2
Don’t even talk to me. Go in August, January, February.

00:11:19:19 – 00:11:21:00
Speaker 1
March. And that got me again.

00:11:21:08 – 00:11:39:17
Speaker 2
I might come up, but it was just you always felt like you were on. So you’re either on to the client you’re on to perform or to be that person in your team. You were there for your other for the fear, all the team members. And so that was really draining. And I am surprised that I was there for 16 years, but I did enjoy it along the way.

00:11:39:19 – 00:11:55:07
Speaker 2
Oh, so many challenges, things that I learned. And that was another thing that I took away from that job. I was kind of like, Well, I’m not going to stop or do anything different if I’m still learning and enjoying what I’m doing, and yet like working crazy hours was not enjoyable, but I learned a lot.

00:11:55:07 – 00:11:56:15
Speaker 1
I just learned to.

00:11:56:16 – 00:12:07:11
Speaker 2
Like, that’s it. And that’s when it came to me like nearly two years ago now. January will be my anniversary when I switch jobs, and that was kind of a big career move for me.

00:12:08:05 – 00:12:27:11
Speaker 1
And you have to support yourself for that because when I know you are mobile, so having lunch in a post office square one day and you said, I think I’m going to leave where you were. Yeah. We’ll I’d set you right. Yeah. Big, big notable company, global organization. Been there. I didn’t realize it had been that long, but it felt like forever.

00:12:27:11 – 00:12:50:18
Speaker 1
So you’ve sort of you’ve grown up in an organization, right? Yeah. I was single, a grad, young. Yeah. Unsure. Grew your confidence, grew your skills, climbed the ladder, got married, had babies. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it’s like it’s time I felt it was like, it’s time for me, you know, you had that’s a fairly long innings for anyone, but especially nowadays.

00:12:50:18 – 00:13:01:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, but that’s a really courageous move because you’re almost institutionalized. That’s not me in selecting anything on e y. But in any organization, that’s a scary move to make. For most people.

00:13:01:14 – 00:13:18:10
Speaker 2
It was really scary. Yeah, absolutely. And I think doing six years or it was probably seven, nearly eight years with kids and that kind of high pace, high stress environment. Yeah, I, I had kind of planned around when I was going to have kids and to the point where.

00:13:18:10 – 00:13:20:09
Speaker 1
I’d just organize.

00:13:20:09 – 00:13:35:22
Speaker 2
Maybe you shouldn’t be away for a busy season, so let’s try and get pregnant on this front. But that didn’t work. Of course, nothing ever goes to plan when it’s got to do with that, but really it I did think about when was the right time. So it wasn’t just because soon as we got married, I want to have kids straight away and then again.

00:13:35:22 – 00:13:50:06
Speaker 2
But he didn’t let us do that. But I made sure that I guess we were set up financially. We had a house, those sorts of things and, and thought, well, I think this is the time that I could kind of do that. Juggle, I didn’t know what was head on artificial body.

00:13:50:06 – 00:13:51:01
Speaker 1
I have no idea like.

00:13:51:12 – 00:14:02:21
Speaker 2
Yeah to have so I’ve got two kids now but when I had Xavier my first and I came back part time, I after about eight or nine months I.

00:14:02:21 – 00:14:18:19
Speaker 1
Was away. How was that progression back given the hours you were doing and the level at which you were doing and then coming back part time with the mindset. I love your work ethic because I have a strong work ethic too. How was that? Did you did you feel guilt that you weren’t taking on more and you were part time?

00:14:18:21 – 00:14:22:06
Speaker 1
You had to, you know, really limit yourself and put boundaries in place. Tell me about both.

00:14:22:06 – 00:14:23:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, boundaries.

00:14:23:04 – 00:14:23:09
Speaker 1
And.

00:14:23:11 – 00:14:29:18
Speaker 2
Was the best way and I was probably one of the earlier people to have a fair not fair work agreement. Yeah. A flexible work.

00:14:29:18 – 00:14:30:05
Speaker 1
Arrangements.

00:14:30:23 – 00:14:34:12
Speaker 2
Where I did come back part time and I also had a day from home.

00:14:34:12 – 00:14:35:15
Speaker 1
So I remember that.

00:14:35:16 – 00:14:39:02
Speaker 2
I cut out the commute and this is back when this is all kind of the new thing, you know.

00:14:39:03 – 00:14:40:21
Speaker 1
Before working from home and cope. Yeah.

00:14:41:02 – 00:14:50:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it was kind of like a new thing and it took some time to get people in. The team used to that and yeah, those boundaries would be crossed. The phones always on. I’m checking emails all the time.

00:14:50:08 – 00:14:54:03
Speaker 1
I remember you saying you’d work at night until your laptop went flat and that was your boundaries.

00:14:54:04 – 00:15:07:17
Speaker 2
My boundary was kind of like I could plug in and keep going and keep going and not kill myself and not realize and pay the price that day. But that was a way that I could put a control on myself without really pushing that crazy.

00:15:07:17 – 00:15:20:19
Speaker 1
Like you look back and both of us had not the smoothest transition into motherhood. We both maternal, but it didn’t come naturally and we had some hurdles. But you look back and look at the the juggles that we both faced. I don’t know how we made it out on the other side.

00:15:21:02 – 00:15:39:05
Speaker 2
I don’t know all the time. I have no idea. How have we still married? One foot in front of the other? You do. And if it doesn’t work, you try something else. And so there were so many points where I said to my husband, I was like, Well, this is not working. I’m, you know, I can’t keep up on the washing up for two days and cleaning the house and doing such, like all those sorts of things.

00:15:39:05 – 00:15:44:05
Speaker 2
And we just then said, okay, well what needs to change is I get a clean. Yeah, this decision.

00:15:44:09 – 00:15:49:20
Speaker 1
Well, you can’t, you can’t marry me about this. I’ve got a robovac I’m happy with the OCD with that.

00:15:50:06 – 00:16:10:20
Speaker 2
But yeah but just understand what feels your cup really. So to me when I was starting to feel down and I’d been to many hours at work and I was just starting to feel really upset, the only way to get me out, it was realizing that I needed to feel my family home. So I go out for the weekend, switch off for the weekend, go and have a little weekend away with the family.

00:16:10:20 – 00:16:14:13
Speaker 1
But are you good at the switch off? Like can you be with family and genuinely be there.

00:16:15:08 – 00:16:16:20
Speaker 2
When I plan it like that? Yeah.

00:16:17:00 – 00:16:19:19
Speaker 1
You even have to be so organized with your brain. Well, because it’s kind of.

00:16:20:00 – 00:16:26:19
Speaker 2
Like if I don’t and to me I would check emails at night time and it meant that I didn’t have to do it in the morning. And so, you.

00:16:26:19 – 00:16:27:08
Speaker 1
Know, the morning.

00:16:27:08 – 00:16:29:02
Speaker 2
Person, I’m not a morning, I’m a night.

00:16:29:03 – 00:16:36:05
Speaker 1
You hate me when I’m holiday. Actually, it serves a purpose because I can take your children and you get to sleep, whereas I’m early to bed. Early.

00:16:36:19 – 00:16:49:11
Speaker 2
That’s it. So you just find what works. And if it doesn’t work, try something else and just be courageous to, you know, really sit there and go, well, this isn’t working, so I need to do something different. I don’t know what that might be, but something needs.

00:16:49:13 – 00:17:07:06
Speaker 1
Exactly. And I think there’s a couple of things. Again, the previous guest that came in, she also she was actually when she started her first business, she was a single mom with two kids. So that’s even harder. I always joke and say that we kind of are single mums at some point because our husbands are another child. Right, exactly.

00:17:07:06 – 00:17:34:17
Speaker 1
Or they’re working in my case. But, you know, it’s it’s one of those things you just need to get to tomorrow. Yeah. Don’t try and solve the world’s problems. Just get to the next day and then figure out what that thing is. But the juggle is real and I know that this has got a chance to be a success, but the guys really don’t get it because that mommy guilt and the constant, you know, like I’ve got a school budget that I have to make tonight into long yeah I don’t make parts but we’ve got to do that.

00:17:34:22 – 00:17:38:04
Speaker 1
And then I’ve also got swimming lessons, you know, all those things and how.

00:17:38:04 – 00:17:39:02
Speaker 2
Am I going to fit all this.

00:17:39:02 – 00:18:02:11
Speaker 1
In to juggle? But the other part of it is to, I think comparison artist can really be detrimental to some negative mental states. You know, in the past I’ve been caught up in that bad, bad about 15 years ago. Like, I’m not there. I’m not doing that. I’m not, you know, yeah, success is your own and success looks completely different, all of us.

00:18:02:11 – 00:18:12:03
Speaker 1
And you’ve got to figure out what makes you happy, what success looks like. But even on your own roof, like, if it’s not working, you have the power to fix, you know.

00:18:12:18 – 00:18:19:17
Speaker 2
And and talk to each other. Yeah, and I know you and I talk a lot. And yes, we do have those sessions where we are kind of husband bashing.

00:18:19:17 – 00:18:21:02
Speaker 1
Yes, actually. Right. We need that.

00:18:21:09 – 00:18:37:12
Speaker 2
Advantage. Exactly. Because we can relate and it might be completely different issues, but sometimes you just need someone to hear you because you’re stuck in your own thought. So like you’re either stressing about work, stressing about kids, stressing about how are you going to get dinner on the table tomorrow? Purely just out of time. Not so much money.

00:18:37:12 – 00:18:37:21
Speaker 2
Thank you.

00:18:37:21 – 00:18:40:15
Speaker 1
Domino’s and over eight by the way I just check my arsenal on.

00:18:40:21 – 00:18:53:10
Speaker 2
It but you just kind of guy I just need a reason and talking to someone you trust and love dealing in on those topics and just having them to to listen and to hear you and to go, you’re not alone.

00:18:53:15 – 00:19:07:19
Speaker 1
And in a lot of ways and sometimes just actually physically getting it out, you know how you hold it in and you paint it up and yeah, just getting it out. And sometimes that I actually find that when I talk to you about it, it comes out and I’m like, Oh, I was done between I do. I really need to lose sleep over that.

00:19:08:10 – 00:19:26:08
Speaker 1
But it is like I think from the start of time to the end of time, women have always had that ability to sit around and yawn and put a cup of tea on or a glass of pretend sauvignon blanc on a half strength wine with mascara that I talk about with actual wine. But we do have that come together, you know, safe space.

00:19:26:08 – 00:19:57:18
Speaker 1
And I think we’re encouraging more of that in our men and certainly in our young men. Yeah. With as Xavier and Rafael, we’re encouraging more of those conversations because thoughts are amazing, but thoughts are also really quite dangerous if we don’t put some Yeah. You know, safe space around and some boundaries around it. Yeah. So women have always done that and perfect example of us sitting here talking shit for half an hour of microphone, but somebody out there is going to be listening to it and they’re going to, you know, and so that in itself can be that one of those stories that can save someone that, yeah, just speak out, speak up and speak

00:19:57:18 – 00:20:11:10
Speaker 1
around to the people that you are. I know I’m probably speaking out of school here, but I know that Angela and myself would definitely be more than happy to speak to anybody who’s struggling out there who just needs to be, Oh, I don’t care if I don’t say a word that will never happen.

00:20:11:16 – 00:20:12:12
Speaker 2
Just to be heard.

00:20:12:12 – 00:20:25:05
Speaker 1
Exactly. Right. And, you know, I didn’t unlock your mum and Chris’s mum. I didn’t never did the mother’s club thing. So I think that’s something that we’ve let go. Yeah. So I think, you know, you need.

00:20:25:05 – 00:20:37:19
Speaker 2
Your community around you. So whether that’s family or a close group of friends or whether you do join a mothers club, you know, and just find someone completely random that’s going through the same thing at the same time, and you’re able to just share those experience.

00:20:37:19 – 00:20:53:21
Speaker 1
If you’ve got the same baby age, it’s chances are you’re experiencing the same crap. Yeah, but yeah. But sorry. I do digress and I interrupted in classic Emma form, but coming back to lack we probably at the point that you had babies at a Y. Yeah. So you were one of the first that had that flexible work arrangements.

00:20:53:21 – 00:21:09:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that I’d probably just add to that around that time is being able to transition and it comes back to this all elusive work life balance that really doesn’t exist now, just trying to get multiple things to coexist at the same time. Sometimes you lost a shot.

00:21:09:06 – 00:21:12:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Sometimes the laundry’s put a wipe. Sometimes it’s not. Yeah.

00:21:12:00 – 00:21:33:03
Speaker 2
July and August, you know, things aren’t get done, the dishes are dirty, sheets are a little bit dirty for a little bit longer. You know, it’s just working out what to let go of and not to worry about and what to then focus on. But I really try to focus on some transition time. And this was something that I learned, you know, like a self-development course that I put on.

00:21:33:03 – 00:21:50:23
Speaker 2
And I did a lot of soft skill type bomb training, which was which was fabulous. And one of those things that I learned to do was use my commute time to try to transition my brain. So I transition from mummy brain to work. That’s good. And then on the way home it’d be from work brain to back to mummy brain and it’ll be okay.

00:21:50:23 – 00:22:04:06
Speaker 2
I need to unpack what I did this morning or the kids would drive me crazy and we’ve got this at school and I got ready and I got to pay this bill and I’ve got to do that. And I’m going to do groceries on Thursday and work all of that out and kind of process them in your thoughts.

00:22:04:06 – 00:22:25:13
Speaker 2
I am also a list person, so sometimes I would be a list and I might be early in the morning when I wake up, not while I’m driving, but thinking about giving yourself time to transition so that you’re not thinking about those things overlapping. And then you can get to work. You focus on what you need to do, write a list, you know, compress that and then get it off your brain while you’re driving home.

00:22:25:13 – 00:22:32:12
Speaker 2
So when you walk in that door at home, it’s. Hi, everyone. How you going? How’s your day? Yeah, I’ve kind of left the stresses putting out.

00:22:32:12 – 00:22:33:18
Speaker 1
You’re actually in the moment with them.

00:22:33:18 – 00:22:38:18
Speaker 2
It’s like I had so many stresses that I was dealing with at work. Clients, people, teams.

00:22:38:18 – 00:22:40:07
Speaker 1
And that’s not their fault, right?

00:22:40:08 – 00:22:56:19
Speaker 2
They don’t get it. I understand what I did. My husband doesn’t understand what I do on a day to day basis, but sometimes I’d need to vent, but most of the time I just go, Well, that’s tomorrow morning’s issues. As soon as I get in that car that spending an average, the time that I think about how I’m going to process and deal with that issue.

00:22:57:05 – 00:23:11:16
Speaker 2
And I just felt like that really helped me compartmentalize that home life, to work life and try and get both working. Because you try to do all of those things at once, something falls down. And on that point, another really good piece, another.

00:23:11:16 – 00:23:12:12
Speaker 1
Hot tip I can feel.

00:23:12:12 – 00:23:23:18
Speaker 2
It yeah. Is when you have got so many things on. I imagined having a million balls or 100 bottles up in the air. Yeah, some of those balls are plastic bound. Yep. And some of those balls are glass and straw.

00:23:23:18 – 00:23:24:22
Speaker 1
That’s goose bump material.

00:23:24:22 – 00:23:33:05
Speaker 2
And knowing which are which and which can, you can let bounce and let go through to the keeper that kind of go, you know what if I don’t get to the grocery.

00:23:33:05 – 00:23:35:18
Speaker 1
Store, my we will have a very exactly.

00:23:35:18 – 00:23:36:06
Speaker 2
It will bounce.

00:23:36:07 – 00:23:38:09
Speaker 1
We have the ability to it good.

00:23:38:21 – 00:23:57:23
Speaker 2
But you know, you might have some really pressing things you needed to get done because if I don’t get it done today, it’s going to make tomorrow. It was. And it just goes far out of control. And that’s going to be different for everybody. But acknowledging all those things that are going on at once and working out what to prioritize and be okay with letting some balls bounce.

00:23:57:23 – 00:23:58:06
Speaker 2
Good.

00:23:58:12 – 00:24:11:18
Speaker 1
That’s good. I love that. That’s a major, major hot tip there. I also think it’s one of those things you look back and the things that you worried about and stress about and were fretting about back then. In hindsight, it’s really not that noteworthy.

00:24:11:19 – 00:24:13:01
Speaker 2
I won’t say it.

00:24:13:04 – 00:24:15:03
Speaker 1
Just like that and work, you know, like I.

00:24:15:03 – 00:24:16:04
Speaker 2
Talk. I talk now.

00:24:16:04 – 00:24:33:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know. Exactly. Right. And it’s one of those things like I remember we went through a phase where Willow regained her dummy. She got really sick. And I this was one of those things. Again, I’ll deal with it later. It’s not like you’re going to be at a 21st birthday party going, Willow, come on, pass me the dummy, darling.

00:24:33:02 – 00:24:52:04
Speaker 1
It’s time to go. Let go. Who cares? Yeah. I think we put so much pressure and judgment on self based. I mean, part and parcel of social media is you get the good, you get the bad, and you get the fabricated lifestyle and doing everything. I just don’t subscribe to it any more. You’ll see me without a bra and or make up on social media and I just don’t give a damn.

00:24:52:04 – 00:25:16:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, because that’s real. And I think we need to see way more realness out there, and I think we’re definitely becoming that way. But I think when so our babies are ten, five, eight and yeah, that’s crazy. Back then I think it was even that short time, I think it was way worse. Like there was Instagram models. Having babies who lived around the corner from us who weren’t eating.

00:25:16:12 – 00:25:17:06
Speaker 2
Was a big thing for.

00:25:17:15 – 00:25:17:17
Speaker 1
Me.

00:25:18:03 – 00:25:19:09
Speaker 2
I’ve never bounced.

00:25:19:09 – 00:25:20:01
Speaker 1
Back. No.

00:25:20:06 – 00:25:21:10
Speaker 2
Are you just.

00:25:21:10 – 00:25:22:08
Speaker 1
It is what it is.

00:25:22:09 – 00:25:36:07
Speaker 2
I tried and you try this and you try and then try and give it a five. Like try is probably the main thing that I. Yeah, you know it was bugging me enough and I didn’t do anything about it then I’ve only got myself to blame. But if I try to, and maybe I didn’t give it 110%, it’s still my fault.

00:25:36:07 – 00:25:37:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. Hey, I’ll try it.

00:25:37:05 – 00:26:03:10
Speaker 1
I’ve actually kind of come total one idea with that in you’ve seen my journey in body fluctuation and eating disorders and exercising to the point of ridiculousness and only smoking cigarets and taking laxatives to get a six pack for a VW for £45. I’ve actually come full circle with that in that like this is probably the heaviest I’ve been in a little while, but it’s not the most unhappy I’ve been.

00:26:03:10 – 00:26:20:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I’ve let go of a lot turning 40 of us. It doesn’t help in any way. I think it’s the Botox. But this is the mother. This is the body of a mother who eats Oscar with her kids. Yeah. Instead of stressing about, you know, of course, there’s the band, The Borderline of healthy, young, healthy.

00:26:20:02 – 00:26:23:18
Speaker 2
But with both girls. Yeah, I got to set an example. Right.

00:26:23:18 – 00:26:40:04
Speaker 1
You know, the other day, Willow got on the scales and she said, Oh, my feet have grown. And I said, What do you mean? She goes, Oh, I got on the thing you measure your feet on. She thinks the scales are for measuring your feet. And I did not correct her on that. You know, it’s like, yeah, we don’t talk about fat.

00:26:40:04 – 00:26:55:13
Speaker 1
We talk about good choices and unhealthy choices. We talk about being strong and fit. But yeah, I never want to pull apart my body and show them what I mean. Yeah, you know, Chris, he’s a bit more prude than I am. Chris is like, you’ve got a ten year old son. Nate kind of need to cover up at home, and I’m like, Hell no.

00:26:55:13 – 00:26:57:21
Speaker 1
I want him to see what dimples on thighs looks like.

00:26:58:01 – 00:27:01:11
Speaker 2
The amount of times I come up and go, What are all those lines on your stomach, Mom? I’m like.

00:27:01:11 – 00:27:03:10
Speaker 1
That’s. That’s you. You. Yeah.

00:27:03:10 – 00:27:05:17
Speaker 2
You know, when you were growing inside me, you stretch me.

00:27:06:10 – 00:27:37:17
Speaker 1
That’s what happened. Thanks, mate. Yes, but it is what it is. And yeah, I think the more we can talk about the realness and the reality of what that looks like, especially for our girls. Yeah, I think that’s really important. Yeah, I think. I think we’re paving the way for an easier path for our kids, both female and male, but in particular, female, but also to see what shining lights they’ve got to follow with our blazing trails, you know, and also good luck if they want to be in, you know, anyone they’re going to be anyone but the most sassy pants.

00:27:37:17 – 00:27:38:13
Speaker 1
My goodness.

00:27:38:18 – 00:27:44:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. I often go like people tell me all the time. I wonder where they get that from. I might have no idea.

00:27:44:16 – 00:28:12:05
Speaker 1
They ask you, you’ve got Cecil. I mean, it’s just you kind of hide it away. So you need to. So the mummy juggle. I know that obviously you were not going to say Lucky because you worked your ass off to get there, but in that space in NY was there, did you have to sort of internally recreate yourself PR wise for who you are and you being I know this sounds ridiculous, but being capable in that space when you were the go to the workaholic.

00:28:12:08 – 00:28:26:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. The, you know, you put yourself through extreme measures to get a job done and then you almost come back as this different person. And it’s kind of like, I’ve got this guys. I promise I’m still capable. I’m still the angel that I was. But yeah. How do you go about transitioning into that new life?

00:28:26:13 – 00:28:33:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I guess I was kind of give some context. I would never say no. And before.

00:28:33:23 – 00:28:34:08
Speaker 1
My.

00:28:34:08 – 00:28:51:01
Speaker 2
Kids, well, both, they just gradually got better being able to say no because I started to learn. And if I didn’t, my my cup that I was talking about will be so empty and I could never fill it back up. Yeah. And so really just going out like I’d sit back and go, I really don’t want to do this.

00:28:51:02 – 00:28:52:20
Speaker 2
I really don’t want to do this, but, and.

00:28:52:20 – 00:28:53:18
Speaker 1
Now he’s okay.

00:28:53:18 – 00:29:03:02
Speaker 2
Let’s like yeah, and I would just do it. And so that would mean an 11 p.m.. Frankel Or I’m working to just get that done by tomorrow morning because I’m like, You needed.

00:29:03:02 – 00:29:06:03
Speaker 1
International clients, right? It was never just 9 to 5.

00:29:06:04 – 00:29:27:08
Speaker 2
So I kind of needed to sit there and go, Am I saying yes to do this for me? As in, Oh, it will help my career or I will look good or I will, you know, straight on talking, packing some brownie points because I got the job done with with no complaints, or am I actually doing this for them like it suits them?

00:29:27:08 – 00:29:47:08
Speaker 2
Am I being paid to do that? Exactly. Or am I doing it for them to have on time when really they could look at it in the afternoon and I could do this work in the morning. So being able to make that call in my own head and then having the confidence to then ask the person that’s demanding this task of me to be able to say, Well, do you actually need that tomorrow morning?

00:29:47:08 – 00:29:50:02
Speaker 2
And that’s a really hard thing. That was a really hard thing to learn how to do.

00:29:50:04 – 00:29:51:05
Speaker 1
Such a simple thing, though.

00:29:51:05 – 00:30:02:18
Speaker 2
Isn’t that like, can I get to that to you tomorrow afternoon? Because I’ve got an appointment in the morning with the kids or whatever and I did start to feel guilty using the kids as an excuse for not getting something done.

00:30:03:20 – 00:30:08:06
Speaker 1
Let’s be I’ll be honest, we’ve used them as an excuse when something isn’t wrong because we want to get out of it.

00:30:08:08 – 00:30:16:01
Speaker 2
That’s it. But I did feel guilty kind of because I didn’t want to be that person. When you say, well, I can’t ask Angela to do it because she’ll probably have something to the kids to do. But I.

00:30:16:16 – 00:30:17:05
Speaker 1
You worried about.

00:30:17:05 – 00:30:36:12
Speaker 2
Boundaries like pretty early and they probably weren’t healthy boundaries. It was kind of like just give me from 5 to 8 and just let me go home, have dinner with the kids, have some time in bed. That’s not normal, you know. And then I look back in it at 8:00 and I’ll do another, you know, however long my battery lost on my line.

00:30:36:17 – 00:30:45:15
Speaker 2
So, like, communicating those boundaries was also a key to success. Yep. And then being able to just stick by them.

00:30:45:15 – 00:30:48:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, that’s probably the hardest thing that I’m sure there’s a few. The smaller the.

00:30:49:04 – 00:31:01:07
Speaker 2
Absolute lags where you kind of go, Yeah, you just got to look, I just do have to get this done. Whatever the case may be and you compromise and it is life is about compromising and not saying work and life and everything.

00:31:01:07 – 00:31:17:00
Speaker 1
So so I talk about your insane success in that corporate space and being in the big four in e y in particular. Can you tell me about like transition in between roles? So you started as a grad, but then the actual where did you climb up to it? I’m very proud of you.

00:31:17:00 – 00:31:33:23
Speaker 2
So over the 16 years, I made it to a director in audit, which is basically, I guess a step below partner and the trajectory at each of those, I guess, milestones was 2 to 3 years. And again, overachiever, I guess it was kind of like, Well, I could.

00:31:33:23 – 00:31:34:10
Speaker 1
Do that fast.

00:31:34:10 – 00:31:43:11
Speaker 2
But I want to do it faster. I want to be there. I want to make sure it was on time. The only time it really kicked up was when I had time off for mat leave. And you know during those times so were.

00:31:43:11 – 00:31:46:14
Speaker 1
You mid climb when you had the baby. Yeah. So you sort of settled.

00:31:46:14 – 00:32:03:05
Speaker 2
I kind of had got to manager and that was part of my plan because at that point life was able to be a lot more flexible because I’m managing teams instead of being out on site. So it was kind of job specific, but at that point that was kind of the best time to start to have a family and I could juggle that.

00:32:03:05 – 00:32:18:18
Speaker 2
Well, it just meant that my workload was a lot lower than people who work five days. So I was able to do that. And then from there it was just kind of like, okay, well what’s the next milestone? What’s the next milestone? And then that became a point where I nearly needed to decide whether partner was for me, because that was kind of the top, because that’s.

00:32:18:18 – 00:32:19:02
Speaker 1
The next.

00:32:19:02 – 00:32:39:13
Speaker 2
Big thing. And it was kind of like, Oh, I’m running out of area to grow and yeah, it’s attractive, the lifestyle and the money and the, you know, the responsibility and all of that thing. But there was so many parts of being apart now that I didn’t enjoy. Yeah. And for me I didn’t think that that wasn’t, wasn’t me and that’s okay.

00:32:39:13 – 00:33:07:01
Speaker 2
And I didn’t necessarily close the door, but I acknowledged that I might need to stop thinking about other things. And to be fair, I probably would still be there if this new job hadn’t knocked on my door and it ticked all my boxes and all those sorts of things. But because I was just, you know, I was starting to get to the top of that that ladder, you know, and it was probably going to be a jump sideways into something different as opposed to a jump up.

00:33:07:01 – 00:33:32:02
Speaker 2
Because I did happen to look at that top level, like to be a partner. And that was like, don’t get me wrong, there were lots of women as partners in life and a lot of them made it work. But when I really looked at how they made that work, it didn’t necessarily sit with me, you know? So they’d either have, you know, husbands that stayed at home or had family structures around them that meant that, you know, they didn’t do the mommy stuff.

00:33:32:02 – 00:33:35:22
Speaker 2
So I didn’t have the schoolwork like the life work load, you know, cooking the clean.

00:33:35:22 – 00:33:36:12
Speaker 1
And that’s never.

00:33:36:12 – 00:33:39:00
Speaker 2
Been. And I didn’t want to give that up. I could.

00:33:39:00 – 00:33:39:05
Speaker 1
Have.

00:33:40:06 – 00:33:48:07
Speaker 2
But to me, that was part of having kids and what I signed up for. And I wanted to be a president. Yeah, I’m not saying that they’re not, but it was just I was like, you know what?

00:33:48:07 – 00:34:17:18
Speaker 1
That’s actually I think that’s courageous, recognizing that because we talk about it all the time, creating a career pathway here as well. It read just because someone’s had longevity in an industry or in a role or in a business doesn’t necessarily mean that they want to be elevated to that level. And of course, with elevation comes more management comes more people, skills comes, you know, the juggle is there at work as well as home because you’re not just doing the work, you’re talking about doing the work and then you helping other people piece out the work.

00:34:17:18 – 00:34:44:07
Speaker 1
So there’s a lot at play and I applaud you for just going, you know what? It’s just not for me. And for those of you who don’t know, I was probably most of your Angela comes from a very Italian. Very Italian. She comes from an Italian background. So, you know, massive community, massive, you know, interactions. You can never kick them out of your house, never start a party at 9 a.m. They’re still there at 9 p.m..

00:34:44:07 – 00:35:00:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Which I love it. Right. But that’s your lifestyle, that’s your life and that’s your family, and that’s important. It always has been. Always will be. So to recognize that and incorporate it into your life and meaning that I can’t say that that you would sacrifice that next step, but I don’t necessarily think it is a sacrifice, like.

00:35:00:23 – 00:35:12:21
Speaker 2
It’s just a conscious choice of, you know, for me and I could have chased the money, but I probably would have been really unhappy that there was lots of other things, you know, you know, putting your life on, you know, whole lifestyle on the line. So money in order.

00:35:13:06 – 00:35:14:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:14:23 – 00:35:47:05
Speaker 2
And that’s a business development and cold calling and trying to win new work. And that that sort of thing wasn’t necessarily for me either. So that was this all those sorts of things and just kind of go, well, okay, well, what is the next step for me? Is that a step sideways and really starting to think about? And again, I had wonderful opportunities that he why would they do the soft skills or the training courses and they put me through an actual, you know, women in leadership course to help me get to director and partner path that was designed specifically for women and challenging and doing all of those things that women usually in that

00:35:47:05 – 00:36:03:11
Speaker 2
workforce struggle with. So I was able to tap into some of those resources and it really got me thinking, well, what is it that what does it look like? Yeah. And yes, the stress excites me because it keeps me busy, you know, but also the variety of work and it’s okay, well, how can I get those things doing something else good.

00:36:03:20 – 00:36:26:13
Speaker 2
And so being able to, you know, take that away and go, how will this is what ticks my my boxes. This is what, you know, makes me happy and this is what doesn’t. And sometimes you need to do the things that don’t make you happy to, you know, get the experience because you never know. You behind you. Because if I had stuck by that mantra strictly, I probably wouldn’t have made the jump to my new job.

00:36:26:13 – 00:36:37:23
Speaker 2
That’s true. And because I would have been too scared, I knew what I was doing and where I was safe. Yeah, yeah. And I needed to kind of make that leap to then work out what the next steps in my career were going to be.

00:36:38:10 – 00:36:59:06
Speaker 1
Well, I know that I’ve really Linton a number of times with building a number of projects, pieces of work out here at Red, obviously with Brad’s e y brain and your e y brain, we are going to rip apart a lot of the good stuff that they did there. Yeah, certainly not copyrighting anything but the framework, the processes and the strategies.

00:36:59:06 – 00:37:20:03
Speaker 1
You know, you’ve got to support an organization as large and as global, as a waffler, what they have done. You know, soon we aim to be $100 million business soon. And I mean overnight we know how much works to come. But off the back of that, I thank you for what you have given me in the past and will give me in the future, because there’ll be more.

00:37:21:05 – 00:37:42:21
Speaker 1
And that’s something selfishly that I love that I can lean on you for, is that, you know, how do we have that foresight? And we’d never want to be corporate, but we need to have a corporate lens to some decision making, an org chart mentality and things like that. So, you know, even things like that part of your story is giving me your story and the good parts of the journey to be able to incorporate that here and.

00:37:42:21 – 00:37:59:08
Speaker 2
To share experiences, whether it is business like, like from what I’ve seen in other businesses. And that’s, that’s something I’m doing now in my current job. Yes, I’m working for one organization and I’m sharing those experiences that I’ve learned along my journey and along my way. And I guess it comes back to the whole purpose of these podcasts.

00:37:59:14 – 00:38:11:11
Speaker 2
It’s sharing your story to help someone else or sharing an experience to help someone else. And sometimes you don’t realize that you can help someone or they don’t need to hear that. And sometimes I just sit here and I will wait for someone to ask me for something. I just, you know.

00:38:12:04 – 00:38:30:02
Speaker 1
Peace out and don’t be quiet. You know me. I’m the loudest person in the world, but it’s it’s because, like, the amount of times that I have had that thought of, nobody wants to hear that. Nobody needs to hear that. It’s absolutely incorrect. There’s someone out there who is teetering on the edge of climbing the corporate lateral, leaving a crazy, not crazy.

00:38:30:02 – 00:38:51:02
Speaker 1
You were never crazy leaving an organization that they’ve had longevity in or whatever it might be that this podcast, what you’re hearing in the years and what they say with their eyes might be the reason they go, You know what? If Angela could do it, I’m going to do it too. So that’s the whole intention we have almost run out of time, which we could talk forever, and I dare say there’ll be a part too.

00:38:52:01 – 00:38:55:04
Speaker 1
I promised Angela lunch and I haven’t fed up yet, so we need to do that.

00:38:55:06 – 00:38:56:06
Speaker 2
You know what? Get me hungry.

00:38:57:01 – 00:39:15:08
Speaker 1
No one wants to get anyone angry. But Inge, as I said in the beginning, you’re not here because your family, friends and family, you’re here because you’re a phenomenal human. The other thing that I want you to take away from it, too, is I want you to have a lot of self-reflection after this. Certainly when it’s edited and it’s all live on Spotify.

00:39:15:08 – 00:39:32:12
Speaker 1
ET cetera. You’ll sit in a space of holy shit. Yeah, that’s me. I’m being interviewed about how phenomenal I am, and I have the potential to be able to share my story with somebody else. It’s a really beautiful place to sit in, and I think you need to applaud yourself more often. We all do. But especially you, Angela.

00:39:32:12 – 00:39:38:21
Speaker 1
I hope my one and only. But thank you for sitting opposite me. Thank you for sharing your story and the opportunity.

00:39:39:04 – 00:39:54:06
Speaker 2
And it’s been great. Like you don’t realize how uplifting it is until you actually do it. Like, Yeah, I was nervous in the beginning, but how you kind of go, well, maybe if just one person listens and can take something away and kind of go, Oh, someone told me this. Did I have to remember who told you? But if someone Yeah.

00:39:54:19 – 00:39:59:05
Speaker 2
Can just remember and take that away and apply it someday, you know, to something.

00:39:59:08 – 00:40:02:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Whether it is the mommy juggle or corporate world we.

00:40:03:03 – 00:40:03:17
Speaker 2
Bulls that are.

00:40:03:17 – 00:40:27:00
Speaker 1
About I 911 I picture bulls my previous guest talked about orgasms and now we are talking about bulls. So is this never a moment of inappropriateness for them or you know that? So yeah, I’m going to start closing now, but thank you. You’re amazing. I love you. You’ll never not be in my life. You’ll never not be my uncle or my fake sister because she gets all the good with the bad as well.

00:40:27:00 – 00:40:43:05
Speaker 1
But thank you for everything you do in my life and the children. And for Chris, very welcome and thank you for being here today. I love you, Angela, and you’re amazing. Thank you again for joining us. I hope you gained something out of today. I know you will. And thank you again for being here. To listen, to learn, to share.

00:40:43:07 – 00:40:49:13
Speaker 1
Please share this pod cast or party as I like to call them. And again, thank you and welcome to Empowered.